Sputnik Africa: Our interview takes place after Vladimir Putin's meeting with the leaders of the African countries in the framework of the African peace initiative. How do you assess the outcome of this meeting? And what's your take on the future prospects of the mission, which intends to continue working on resolving the conflict?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: I think this is the first time for African leaders to go beyond the border of the continent to seek for a solution to the conflict. So coming to Ukraine and Russia, I think, some things could be appreciated. The mission was really backed by the African Union. So the seven leaders of Africa who came here, I think, represent the whole continent of Africa. So that is impressive. My opinion is that we shouldn't expect an immediate result, as the mission came here just to understand the notions of the two warring parties. They went to Kiev and talked to President Zelensky, and they came to Russia, and they met His Excellency the President of Russia, Putin, in St. Petersburg. So they put their proposal on the table. I think it is something which is not expected to get a result at the onset at this very moment, I think the two leaders can take the the proposal that African leaders put on the table and then they will look into it and see what they may take or not. That's how I see it. So the fact is that they came and said that this problem is our problem because the conflict is affecting the whole world and especially Africans. And so it is not natural for them to come and talk to the two leaders.
Sputnik Africa: Recently, Finland said that it would cut off the development aid it gives to Africa, if African countries continue to support Russia's policy. Finland's support to Ethiopia for 2001-2024 will total about €75 million, contributing to education, access to clean water and rural development. How do you assess these kinds of declarations?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: I see it in the very relationship itself. We have a long-lasting partnership with Finland, and we have also bilateral relations with Russia. I think nations, they have the right to decide on what may affect them and to whom they may be related. So I think this is purely a bilateral issue, if it may arise in that way.
Sputnik Africa: During the peace talks with African leaders, Vladimir Putin stated that only 3% of the 31 million tons of grain reached the poorest African countries. And the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs also said that the grain deal may come to an end on July 18. In the meantime, logistical supply chains of grain and fertilizer have been disrupted since Western sanctions have been imposed. Have you felt the consequences, and what possible solutions to the problem do you see here?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Sure. No question about it. The disruption of the chain of food supply, not only Africans, they affect the whole world. Yeah. Because, the grain deal, it’s meant to allow grain and fertilizer to go to the world market. So, due to sanctions and many other projects being played around grain and fertilizer. This deal was supposed to be for the poor nations, and most of them the African nations. But it was opened, we didn't really get the amount of grain that was supposed to be. So I think we need to work on it because this is not affecting few individuals or few countries. It's affecting the whole world and the food price is going up. We in Ethiopia, we really need fertilizer for our agriculture, so, as we are approaching the season for planting. This kind of thing should be allowed. And I mean, all the parties are concerned about this. We have to negotiate very well. And then the food and the proposal should go to the world market, as negotiated in Turkey last year.
Sputnik Africa: Recently, Russia announced that it would contribute $10 million in food aid through UN structures to four African countries, and Ethiopia is among these countries. How do you assess the need for such assistance?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: I really applaud the move of the Russian government. I saw this through a press release by the Russian Embassy in Ethiopia. So this is a good move because there are many refugees and displaced people in Ethiopia. So if this is meant for humanitarian, I think it's a good move. It is only an act of humanity. I appreciate what Russia did.
Sputnik Africa: According to the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, Russia and Ethiopia have traditionally coincided in very close positions on key regional and international problems, adding that Russia has reaffirmed "our strong support for the government's effort to stabilize the situation" in the region. So how could Russia help in the stabilization of security in the region, in your opinion?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Russia has been working with Africa since the struggle of decolonization of Africa for African independence of African countries. It was playing its part in our region to make a security step. So we expect a lot from Russia as to work with African nations in our region on fighting terrorism and extremism. And also, Russia can play its part to solve the conflict in the regions and making peacekeeping up to the level for the region. And then during the post-conflict development, I think we expect a lot from Russia, so Russia can play a lot, in this regard.
Sputnik Africa: Sergey Lavrov has visited African countries four times within a year, and he has visited Ethiopia as well. And the speaker of the Ethiopian upper house of parliament has been to Russia this year was his first official visit. So, what does this intensification of contacts mean for the relations between our countries?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: His Excellency Lavrov [has been to Africa] not only four times, I think recently also he went back. So a few weeks ago, when you combine them, he went to about 8 countries in a very short period of time. So he went to Ethiopia and there are many other officials from Russia going to Ethiopia, Ethiopians also come here. And the very recent visit of his honorable [Speaker] Agegnehu Teshager to the Russian Federation is one of those kinds of visits. So this shows that the relationship between us is getting better and better. And this intensification of the official visits, I think is the manifestation of the cordial relationship between our two countries.
Sputnik Africa: The head of the Federation Council of Russia, Valentina Matvienko, stated that the current trade volume between Russia and Ethiopia still doesn't correspond to the economic potential of bilateral relations. And last year you said that Ethiopia was ready to use any mechanisms for trade with Russia, including the introduction of the MIR payment system bank cards. Has there been any progress in this direction?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: I think the honorable speaker of the council, she was right to say that the trade relations between Ethiopia and Russia are not up to the expectation of our bilateral relations. And when you [look] there is a lot of potential we have for Ethiopian to send its goods here and for Russia to send its products to Ethiopia, especially technology-wise. So it's true. We need to make all efforts to increase the trade volume between the two countries. So to do that, I think we need to [create a] mechanism because we are facing challenges now, for example, the payment. Because of the sanctions imposed on Russia, the financial transactions are not easy. So I think what is very important, it's a key issue, for the two nations to talk, to sort out what mechanism they may put in place, to ease the transaction between business of the two countries. So the MIR payment system is one of the mechanisms to solve this problem, but as far as this is concerned, there is no progress, as expected. I think the high officials of the two nations have to sit down and sort out how to make this come through, because there are many countries now working together with Russia in different ways. So I think also Ethiopia can do the same in the future.
Sputnik Africa: Do you think this could be one of the topics for discussion at the Russia-Africa Summit?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Sure, I think the payment system, the financial transaction, I think that this is one area that should be discussed during the Summit. I hope so.
Sputnik Africa: Recently, Mali called on the UN to withdraw MINUSMA from the country and in the past the UN peacekeeping missions have also operated in your region. How do you evaluate the efficiency of these UN missions on the African continent?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Well, as in other regions of the world, there are UN peacekeeping missions in Africa and for that matter, Ethiopia was one of the countries contributing peacekeepers, especially in Abyei, in Somalia and in Liberia a few years ago. So we are part of all these missions. Here to evaluate the effectiveness and efficiency of the peacekeeping missions, I think many factors should be considered. The UN is an organization established by the sovereign states of the world, so the UN by itself, without sovereign states, is nothing, right? So the countries, the member states of the United Nations, have to do their best to provide the necessary resources. The necessary resources are financial resources and providing peacekeepers, human resources. So if you don't provide such kind of resources, the mission will not do their job effectively. So, nations should provide the required resources, the resources should be available. And the peace missions in Africa, we cannot say that they are failures because there are some of them, which were quite successful. So we have to see it in that way.
Sputnik Africa: Many African countries, notably Algeria and Egypt, are now interested in interaction with BRICS. And since 2020, the BRICS countries are ahead of the G7 countries in terms of their contribution to global economic growth. What do you think is the reason for the increased interest towards BRICS today, and how do you see the relation between Ethiopia and BRICS in the future?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Well, I don't see this only in an economic perspective. I think there is a political aspect of it because if you see the world today, you can see multilateralism is being ignored and there are some few powerful nations, militarily or economically, that dominated the world and imposed their interests on other, so-called big nations. I think many countries now want to go to multilateralism, to make sure that this multilateralism is functioning well, because if we do the issues of the world together without interference in the domestic aspect of other countries, I think this will be the way out in the future. Therefore, the BRICS, I think, is a bloc, when you see the population itself, the world population, two-thirds I think is within this bloc and the fastest economies in the world today are found within the countries in this bloc. So I think it's natural for other nations to work with the certain kind of dynamics of the organization because it is not only benefiting economically because, like I said, the values and principle of multilateralism is within this, and they are supporting it. They have the safeguard of this. We don't need unilateralism anymore. I think many nations don't want that. So the BRICS nations, they are promoting this, to go back to the values and the principles of multilateralism and promoting economic growth for the less developed countries. And to make developing in the world more balanced. So Ethiopia's intention also is to work together with the BRICS nations. And I hope in the future we will also join. Why not?
Sputnik Africa: In 2021, Russia and Ethiopia signed two memorandums of understanding on nuclear education and training in Ethiopia, and on building a positive public opinion about nuclear power. How is cooperation on peaceful nuclear energy going today?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Yeah, this is an ongoing project. But we signed not only these two memorandums of understanding. There are many other [agreements] also. There were some agreements which were already signed. There are some pending. I hope it will be signed also during the coming Summit. If not, they will be signed in the very near future. And the implementation is one of the aspects, the two nations should work on that. You don't sign agreements for the sake of signing, right? We have to implement it. So I think we need to, for example, we are now working on an air service agreement. I think the two nations do have a common understanding on this issue. It will be signed very soon. So the implementation of these two memorandums of understanding is going on and I hope [of] the coming agreements also. We have to work very hard. As on our parts, the embassies of Ethiopia and Russia, we made an inventory on the old agreements which were not ratified. These are signed but not yet ratified and which are on the way, coming to be signed. So we will sort that out in a way that those which were already ratified, we have to implement immediately. So the inter-governmental commission which met in Ethiopia last December, I think they talked about all these issues. This is time now to really make sure that this agreement materializes.
Sputnik Africa: There is only one month left, even a little bit less until the Russia-Africa summit. And according to Speaker of Ethiopia's House of Federation, Ethiopia will send a high level delegation to attend the summit. So what, first of all, what do you expect from this event?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Honorable Agegnehu Teshager spoke about the higher delegation of Ethiopia coming to this summit and the delegation will come over for sure.
Sputnik Africa: From the point of view of Ethiopia, what priority issues should be raised during these discussions?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: You see, the world now is changing, right? And because of the sanctions imposed on Russia, because of the war in Ukraine. Russia now is looking forward to work with Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans. So I think it is the high time now for Russians to come to Africa and work on economic issues. Politically and diplomatically we are good, but we have to change these relations into economic issues, investment and trade issues, education, energy, science, technology. All these should be the areas. For example, the tourism area, these are the areas we should focus on. So I hope that the leaders will talk about it.
Sputnik Africa: Will the Prime Minister of Ethiopia will come to the Summit?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: It is now premature to say whether the Prime Minister will come or not.
Sputnik Africa: What issues at the moment are the most pressing for Ethiopia and what is Ethiopia's position on these?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: There is a trilateral negotiation between Ethiopia, Sudan and Egypt. So this trilateral negotiation is being led by the African Union. Last time within the 32nd summit of state of Arab League, the Egyptian government just took this issue to the Arab League. So we are not happy with that move because this is an African issue. The water in the River Nile is Africans', and we don't see any reason why African issues, which is led by the African Union, can be taken to be an issue for Arab League states. So Ethiopia is not happy with that.
Sputnik Africa: And there are some solutions that are considered for this matter to come back to the African leaders?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: You know, the Egyptians wanted to take it to the UN Security Council and had the Americans involved a few years, and that didn't work. It was then brought back to Africa because this is an issue for Africans. So the African-led negotiation is still going. And we believe that the three nations should abide by the principle there, and they agree on that. So Ethiopia is not happy with the act of Egypt taking the issue to Arab League states. And we see that it would be unproductive.
So this is one issue of rest. And we hope our friends and nations will support us in this regard. We want to make it clear to friends and nations, that's why I raised this issue. The second one is about the evacuation of foreign nationals in Sudan because the conflict in Sudan affects many people. Because we are neighboring countries, the Sudanese themselves came to Ethiopia as refugees and there are also non-foreign, non-Sudanese nationals who came to Ethiopia. So the Ethiopian government has done its part to receive all the refugees and migrants in Ethiopia. And we want to say that the world has to, for example, the UN system, their agencies that have to see this as a challenge for the Ethiopian government and do the necessary support for these migrants and refugees.
The third thing I would like to say is about the situation in Northern Ethiopia. You know that we have been in conflict for two years and this was settled through the negotiation peace agreement which was struck in Pretoria, South Africa. So now the implementation is going on and the schools and all the services in the Tigray region is in place now. But the only thing remaining is to rebuild the affected region, the region of Tigray, the region of Amhara and the region of Afar, because these are the three regions which were affected seriously during the conflict. So countries, friendly countries like Russia, I think that they will reach out to support us in rebuilding the areas which were affected by the conflict.
Sputnik Africa: Are there negotiations with Russia on how it can help?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: Through diplomatic channels.
Sputnik Africa: The three national important issues for Ethiopia. What kind of help from Russia would you ideally expect? For example, with the first one, would you like Russia just to support you, probably participate as an observer, as a helper with the mechanism of negotiating or what kind of help would you expect from Russia on these issues?
Ambassador Cham Ugala: What we do expect from Russia is to support telling the position because like I said, it was taken to the UN Security Council, so in that area, countries like Russia should raise their voices to say that this is already being dealt with within the African continent by the AU. We need that kind of support and to tell the facts, because we don't want to internationalize, to make it as a world issue. So we want to make sure that countries in the world understand that equitable distribution of Nile waters is there. So what Ethiopia did is not to affect the countries down the Nile stream, like Sudan and Egypt, we want to convince them to work together with Ethiopia, to share the water of the Nile equitably. We didn't say that we want to take all the water because it is coming from us because Ethiopia is the only country in that area contributing like 85% of the water. But the Egyptians, they want to monopolize using water of the Nile. It is a natural gift. But all the repairance have the right to use this water. So we want nations in the world to understand this and to know exactly the position of Ethiopia, so they can understand the situation very clearly.